Card draw simulator
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None. Self-made deck here. |
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Zinjanthropus · 227
Introduction
Have you ever been playing a high xp Rogue deck where your actions are so efficient that playing non-fast assets feels bad? Well, let me introduce you to completely legitimate businessman Joey "The Rat" Vigil. No longer will you have to waste actions getting item assets like Lockpicks and Lucky Cigarette Case out.
Well, that was the reason why I originally decided to build this deck, but there are a few other advantages that Joey, specifically the level 3 version offers. For one thing, he does have the best cost:soak ratio among Rogue allies, so you won't feel too bad if you have to sacrifice him to save yourself. If you add in Delilah O'Rourke, you could soak up over half of the damage from Beyond the Veil.
He also allows you to discard item assets at will, and even pays you for them. Why would you want to discard a card from play, you ask? Well, if it's a limited use card like a used up gun, all that it's offering you is asset protection. it also defrays the cost of playing a new gun somewhat. Winifred Habbamock also has completely ridiculous card-draw, so you will most likely see the copy of the gun that you discarded by the time you run out of uses on the one you just played. That's pretty much the core concept of this deck.
Overview
This is a flex deck with an emphasis on enemy management over clueing but is still ready to contribute clues, if necessary. It's also a skill-heavy deck designed to take advantage of Winifred Habbamock's inherent synergy with skills, and particularly the large number of excellent Rogue skills.
It is largely designed to be paired with a flex who has an emphasis on clueing. My first campaign with a deck similar to this was with a Necronomicon-Scavenging Minh Thi Phan while the other was with Stella Clark. I have also played a true solo version of it through The Path to Carcosa. Because it already has the capacity to both get clues and deal with enemies it adapts fairly well to this.
What's the plan for Enemy Management?
Winifred Habbamock has some built in enemy management in the form of 5, and with a relatively low concentration of weapons and attack events in the deck there will be times when you will be using mostly this. Additionally, if you draw Dendromorphosis as a weakness, as I did in The Web of Dreams, you will occasionally have your firepower taken away from you, so it's important to be ready to evade where necessary. Evasion can also be a good way to trigger our succeed-by effects.
Beyond that, we're taking guns due to their inherent synergy with Joey "The Rat" Vigil. The exact guns to take are sort of up to you. Different weapons have different advantages. In my 2-handed runs I took the Mauser C96 (2), which has a lot of ammo, and is therefore a good weapon for pumping loads of enemies full of lead. It also gives us benefits for oversuccess which synergize with our Rogue skills and draw engine. As part of that it provides us with some drip economy to supplement Lone Wolf and The Rat's secondary ability. I think this is my preferred option for guns.
Other options, however, include the Lupara, which offers less ammo but better burst damage, Sawed-Off Shotgun, which is like Lupara but with a lower floor and higher ceiling, and the .41 Derringer which gives us extra actions as a a reward for oversuccess. Lupara was my choice for my Carcosa solo run, and I think it was solid. Outside of solo you'll probably want another gun in addition to Lupara, as 2 ammo isn't much even with Wini's deck cycling capabilities. To lean away from clues and go all in on enemy management, I'd probably go Beretta M1918.
How about Clues?
Our primary clueving tool will be Lockpicks. In this example deck, I'm starting with Lockpicks (0). This should be fine, because we're planning to partner with a primary cluever flex investigator, so we won't be discovering the lion's share of clues, but in solo I would prefer not to depend on a card that will discard itself the moment a happens, so I took Flashlight. If you need to be taking on a larger share of clues then you should probably go Flashlight. You could also always take both. My man Joey can hook us up with either, as they're both item traited.
Beyond Lockpicks we just have Intel Report, and I don't think we need anything else. This will occasionally be used to pick up two clues at once, occasionally be used for , and occasionally be clutch for getting clues off of a distant location to save actions. In 3-player I would consider Pilfer.
A few notes on drawing cards and piloting Wini more generally
Part of the strategy of this deck involves cycling our guns using The Rat's second ability. This means we need to be burning through our deck really fast. Wini's ability is extremely powerful, but it does have a few limitations that must be played around.
The main issue is that it requires us to commit 2 cards but we only get one card in exchange. This means that, absent any other card draw we will gradually run out of cards, and when Wini is low on cards she tends to struggle. Cards are her lifeblood.
The first way to cope with this is Opportunist. As long as it returns to our hand we've spent 2 cards, but also get 2 back. However we are bound to lose Opportunist eventually, if only to a pull. To help with this we have Lucky Cigarette Case which can do the same thing without as high of a risk of being discarded. With additional XP we will add All In which accelerates everything that already makes Wini powerful.
The other issue that can come up is that needing to commit 2 cards to activate Wini's means that we need to have at least 2 cards to legally commit to a test. Especially at low XP, Wini will often end up with a hand full of cards that she can't commit to the tests that she needs to do at the moment. For this reason we must prioritize icons as much as possible. This is tricky in the low-xp deck, but luckily high-xp Rogue skills are almost all . This is actually the reason why Daring Maneuver is in the 0xp deck, though it will occasionally come in handy to be able to play it. Daredevil (0) is also an option, but could end up discarding important cards. This might not be that big of a deal, though, I have never been daring enough to include it, myself.
Alternatives
At this point I think it's a good idea for me to point out that Joey "The Rat" Vigil (0) is not necessarily a good choice to include in the 0xp deck. At 4 cost he is fairly expensive, and we don't usually have enough resources to use his ability at 0xp. In addition, the L0 version does not give us the drip economy and cycling that the L3 offers. I would recommend including a Trench Coat or Fine Clothes, instead, to allow us to use Lonnie's horror regeneration. Joey "The Rat" Vigil is here mostly to make it so that people who are searching decklists for him can find this one. I will say that is not the worst icons to have, though.
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Backstab is included here as a solution to 3-health enemies, and also because it's the most damage available to Wini in 1 action. Having icons is potentially useful to activate Wini's ability. Other options include Coup de Grâce for more icons, or Hatchet Man, though I think that one is much better after you have Delilah O'Rourke. It wouldn't be crazy to replace this with Daredevil to get more icons.
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As discussed earlier, Lockpicks could easily be Flashlight depending on how risky you want to play, and how important Wini's clueing is to the rest of her team.
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When I ran this deck solo, I ended up skipping out on the weapon and taking Sneak Attack, Hatchet Man, and Backstab for enemy management. I also didn't include Overpower and did include Perception. "You handle this one!" was removed, and Say Your Prayers was added.
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Depending on scenario, Nimble could be good
Upgrades
This is probably the point to lay on the bad news that Joey "The Rat" Vigil is not necessarily the most impactful early upgrade, and is better as a late campaign card to improve an already very effective deck. That being said, both of the times I ran something like this 2-handed, I did upgrade to him pretty fast, and it worked fine. Joey just didn't really start to shine until the late campaign. He will pay dividends at that point, though. IMO it's best to take 2x The Rat because he's nice and cheap to play so we don't mind killing him off as much as other allies.
High Priority
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Charon's Obol. It's not essential, but this deck is pretty XP hungry.
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Adaptable. It's usually the right call.
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Momentum. This card is a bargain at 1xp and gives us a valuable to trigger our . There are countless situations where lowering the difficulty of tests helps. Can replace Daring Maneuver or Backstab, or maybe one copy of an asset. Some of this will depend on our order of upgrades. Remember that we can always bring back a L0 card with Adaptable if we decide that we made the wrong cuts earlier on.
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Lucky Cigarette Case (3). Improves our consistency a lot. While I haven't done it every time, I think it's best to take 2 copies of this because we want to be able to get it as early as possible. One nice thing about this card is that there is no limit to how deep you can dig, so if we commit an entire hand worth of skills (hopefully one of them is All In to refill our hand), then we can dig through most of our deck which could be clutch for finding our guns at a critical point or something.
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All In. More icons and really speeds up our early game while keeping us running later on. Just an all around amazing card. With this and the upgraded Cigarette Case we can afford to take certain assets as 1-ofs leaving us more room for icons. This can replace Overpower.
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Mauser C96 (2) or other gun of your choice. See earlier discussion on guns. Definitely a 2-of
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Delilah O'Rourke. It's possible to do without her, but boy does she ever make killing enemies much easier, while also giving us useful static boosts. She helps conserve ammo and can deal with immediate threats (especially Dark Cult) if we're out of ammo or whatnot. I would definitely try to get her early, especially in true solo. It might be okay to take her as a 1-of though. Replace Lonnie
- It is worth mentioning that Lonnie's healing ability (which can target anyone's item asset), can play a useful support role. In general, though, not upgrading to Delilah will be more of a challenge. If we choose not to take Delilah, we should take some other weapons or attack events such as Garrote Wire or Sneak Attack (2) to compensate. Having to bring more cards will limit the number of icons we can include which can stifle us if we're not careful.
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Charisma. Whether we stick with Lonnie Ritter or upgrade to Delilah, we need this.
Lower Priority
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Lockpicks (1). Could be taken as a 1-of for 2-player.
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Garrote Wire. This is good for finishing off odd-health enemies. This can probably be a 1-of as well.
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Copycat. I freakin' love this card. Very useful if we're pairing with another skill-heavy 'gator like Minh Thi Phan. Also a icon.
- Note that in the insert for Wini's deck it implies that this card can trigger her ability on it's own (by committing a second card from another player's discard).
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Ace in the Hole or The Gold Pocket Watch. Pretty strong late campaign cards if we have enough XP.
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Opportunist (2). Less necessary than I thought it would be, especially as this deck will eventually have lots of triggers for succeeding by 3 or more. However, this upgrade is going to boomerang more often.
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Daring Maneuver (3). I haven't tried this, but it seems sound, especially in the early game when our draw engine is still starting up. Worst case scenario, it's a icon, which is still pretty good for Wini.
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Double or Nothing. Fair warning, this is pretty bonkers in Wini. Prepare to accidentally break the game :P
Depending on various factors
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Three Aces. Winifred Habbamock is currently the best primary Rogue at using this card, can also be committed willy nilly for more draw on the first run through your deck to be assembled on subsequent runs for big combo turns.
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Daredevil (2). Not recommended with Three Aces but is otherwise another skill. It also can trigger Wini's on its own, because it finds you the second card to commit. Probably not high priority, though.
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Liquid Courage or Liquid Courage (1). Also synergizes with Joey by being item traited. This can be a useful support card. I also took it in Dim Carcosa in my solo run because it's a place where horror healing can be relevant, but I only ended up using it once.
- This can also be a good tech against certain weaknesses like Chronophobia or Kleptomania
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Moment of Respite. I was going to take this to Dim Carcosa, but would have had to pass on Ace in the Hole, so I went with Liquid Courage (1) instead. Probably not worth it outside of solo, and even then maybe not.
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Hatchet Man. This is more of an Adaptable side-grade. I don't care for it, except maybe in Finn, normally, but when combo'd with Delilah O'Rourke it's excellent. No inherent synergy with The Rat, though, so it might be better to take Lupara for 3-healthers. I think that I took a single Lupara in addition to my Mausers in the Web of Dreams run. I think I might have had Hatchet Man earlier on, though.
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Money Talks This card can be pretty wild in Wini, and this deck did end up sitting on a decent sized pile of resources a couple of times, but we are replaying guns a lot, and it definitely didn't end up with as many resources as some Wini decks I've built.
Mulligan
I generally try to mulligan for card draw, especially Lucky Cigarette Case. I would definitely keep Lone Wolf or All In. I would probably keep Lockpicks (as clues tend to be more pressing than enemies in the first couple rounds). I'm less sure about allies and guns unless you've also gotten All In or especially Lucky Cigarette Case. I never did keep Opportunist, but it might not be a bad idea, as it does improve Wini's early game card draw.
8 comments |
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Sep 10, 2020 |
Sep 10, 2020
To answer your question in a more complicated way than is probably necessary, Joey "The Rat" Vigil's utility in this deck is a little less about the number of items, but more about having limited-use weapons (guns), and cycling them through the deck by drawing a lot of cards. As such, the answer is probably that there aren't enough items until we upgrade into All In and Lucky Cigarette Case (3). I think this is part of the reason why Joey didn't reach his full potential until the late campaign. The other thing to consider is that the high-xp deck could have 3 or 4 guns and a Garrote Wire in addition to Lucky Cigarette Case and Lockpicks. If we don't upgrade into Delilah O'Rourke we might even want to hold onto a Trench Coat on top of that. Liquid Courage could be an optional support include for some teams, as well. Even with just 2 guns, LCC, and Lockpicks (which were the main targets in the solo deck), it's quite easy for Wini to cycle and replay the guns a fair number of times, but perhaps it would be better to avoid running the Mauser C96 in solo, because you might not run out of ammo. That deck used the Lupara, and Joey ended up being quite valuable in Dim Carcosa. One final thing about Joey is that he offers us a lot of flexibility. There was a sequence in the aforementioned Dim Carcosa where I had investigated and discovered a clue, and there was one clue left on the location, and I had a few actions but not enough appropriate icons in hand to investigate again. Joey let me play a second Lockpicks (fast) to finish another investigate. A few turns later I was a few resources short of doing something (I can't remember what, maybe bringing out Lupara?), so I used his ability to discard the extra Lockpicks for 2 resources to let me do that. Very fun sequence! As for Lonnie Ritter's ability, I'm no rules guru, but I'm pretty sure that, while you have to choose a valid target (an item with health), that item does not actually need to have any damage to get the horror healing. That being said, it's true that Trench Coat + Lonnie Ritter is a pretty potent combo for mitigating damage and horror, but IME, Rogues don't usually end up taking much damage, so the horror mitigation is more important. One great thing though is that you could use Lonnie to mitigate a team mate's damage while mitigating your own horror. That's potentially very fun; Maybe a team with a Rogue and Harvey Walters with a Bulletproof Vest to help him mitigate Thrice-Damned Curiosity? |
Sep 13, 2020I have been thinking about how Joey could be used better since I don't feel he matches well with Wini's abilities (overcommit skill cards) and the amount of items in her deck. I looked at my Jenny deck and she didn't have many items either. I threw something together for Tony and he only has guns and LCC. My latest Finn would have been great for Joey since it had guns, Lockpicks and LCC. Joey's shortfall is that Fence is more effective since it works on Illicit cards that aren't items (LCC isn't Illicit though) and doesn't take up an ally slot. And Fence is already difficult to get played due to card costs unless you have a massive economy. I added it in the second half of my TFA campaign and it was an awesome mid or earlier scenario play. Finn had an awesome economy though. |
Sep 13, 2020
Yeah, LCC was actually the big reason for me to build this deck, as I had been cutting it from Wini decks late-campaign due to the action cost of playing it (as compared to Pickpocketing (2)). Joey can save you a lot of actions over the course of a game, as well as prevent AoOs. Note that Garrote Wire and Trench Coat aren't illicit either, which is probably more relevant if you don't take Delilah O'Rourke. Lucky Cigarette Case (3) also gives you deck-search which offers more consistency than the straight draw from Pickpocketing does. It is especially impactful in a deck that only has a few weapons and is cycling them through the deck. The other things that Joey (3) has going for him is that he can discard cards from play, unlike Fence, and you get 2 resources each time that you do that. That's probably not essential to this deck, as normally your hands will be full of Lockpicks and 1 gun, so you could just play gun 2 over gun 1, but it does mean that you're gaining 1-2 resources that you wouldn't otherwise. It also offers some interesting flexibility, as noted in the Dim Carcosa example in my other comment. He is also the cheapest Rogue ally and has a lot of soak, so that's another advantage. I do wish he had more sanity though, IME Rogues usually don't have to worry about dying to damage except for maybe Beyond the Veil. As for the optimal deck for Joey "The Rat" Vigil, I think it has to be a Scavenging deck, probably a Lupara Scavenging deck, as that's where the discard effect would be the most impactful. I think the Lupara is kind of the best weapon to be using Joey for, just because it rewards you for using it up the turn that you play it. I suppose the Colt Vest Pocket does that too. Jenny Barnes and Finn Edwards can both take Scavenging. Preston Fairmont could actually take Scavenging (2), but I'm not sure if he's ideal for a Lupara Scavenging deck otherwise. This deck is actually basically doing the same thing as a Scavenging deck would, but by leveraging Winifred Habbamock's card draw ability instead of Scavenging. The more that I think about it, the more that I think Lupara is actually the best weapon for it, as well. I would just worry about not having enough ammo in 2 player. Perhaps the solution is 2x Lupara and 2x Colt Vest Pocket or something. I'm currently running this deck in TFA with some custom fan-made resolutions and was planning on taking Lupara, for obvious reasons, but maybe I'll also throw in a CVP. |
Sep 13, 2020I will say that I never really ran into a situation where playing Joey "The Rat" Vigil was overly costly in resources terms, but Winifred Habbamock has really good economy too, just by virtue of being able to draw "Watch this!" like 4+ times in a game, and never having to worry about not drawing Lone Wolf too late. |
Sep 13, 2020I still don't see see there being enough actions saved to really justify The Rat over the embarrassment of riches that Rogues have in allies when Fence also saves a similar number of actions each scenario. I think I had 11 (or more) Illicit cards in the deck. PayDay is awesome with Leo DeLuca, Finn's evade and being a fast action. I like the Scavenging - Lockpicks - Lupara combo a lot. This is a spot where Wini can Versatile that in and she has enough card draw that an extra 5 cards don't matter. It would also have worked in my Finn deck but I ran out of deckspace and had to cut all kinds of great cards. |
Sep 15, 2020I definitely agree with Fence being better in Finn. It has a lot of synergy with Smuggled Goods, both by being able to target the same cards, and also being able to make Smuggled Goods fast. Also Finn already really likes Pay Day. I think it's a little of a tougher call in other investigators though. Joey doesn't exhaust, so you can potentially play and discard more guns in one round, he is also cheaper to play, and a lot of decks would already be taking a second ally for soak purposes, anyway, so it's not an extra asset to play the way that Fence is. You do have to spend a resource to use his ability, but you get 2 resources back when you discard. I think the part where Fence really has the edge is in XP cost. 6xp is definitely no joke in non-TFA campaigns. I do agree that it's hard to justify Joey next to all of the other Rogue allies. Probably the best XP selection of any faction. As for Scavenging, I have definitely been wanting to build a Lupara Scavenging deck, and you're convincing me that Wini is maybe actually the choice for that. Jenny and Finn have a little bit more difficulty getting to the point where they can reliably pass fight tests, and, as you say, with Winifred's card draw you might be able to find it quicker than they would, anyway. All that being said, I'm still pretty happy with how this gun cycling deck has worked out when I've played it, so far. It's probably not actually as good as a Switchblade deck with Leo De Luca, but it's quite fun to play, anyway. |
Sep 15, 2020Oops forgot to type |
I love seeing decks built around underused cards. Do you think Wini has enough items to use Joey with?
I don't think Fine clothes would work with Lonnie but Leather Jacket would. Might as well go with Trench Coat at that point though.