Live and Learn

What a great card! Lucky! is a great card and this card will not change that, but it's so nice to have a card that fills a similar role to Lucky! while at the same time not being the same and still having its own space. I'm currently playing an Ashcan Desperate/Dark Horse/Yaotl deck and I'm taking out my Lucky!s because they cost one resource and have no icons in a deck that discourages having resources and encourages having cards with icons in the discard pile. They synergized badly with the deck. This card (while not necessarily getting along with Yaotl) is a great replacement in that deck.

In general, it's very well balanced with Lucky!. While Lucky! gives you a chance to pass a test when you would have failed after you've seen the token, Live and Learn lets you weasel out of an auto fail or other really bad draw. Lucky! costs a resource, while Live and Learn still resolves side effects of a bad test and does not guarantee success (or further side effects of another failed test). But it's free!

I'm happy to see the designers make a card like this, and I've enjoyed playing with it.

NTGuardian · 24
I agree--I see this card as a slightly worse Lucky!, but it's not inconceivable that some decks could prefer this one, or could want both of them. — CaiusDrewart · 3200
Aren’t you overrating this card? Basically it just grants a free action after a test is failed and +2. You still lose all Ressources and cards committed. Might be useful if you built your deck around failing, otherwise I don’t see this cards greatness. — Django · 5171
It's great, if you don't invest heavyly into tests, like Dark Horse Pete would — Adny · 1
@Django I think that committing everything while Live and Learn is in hand is not a point of this card. In my opinion the best thing to do with this card is: attempt to the test and fail it, reap rewards of failure without losing an action (Rabbit's Foot, Look what I found!, even Oops! looks way better when played this way), then pass that test with skill bonus. This card is just a sweet addition to fail-to-win archetype. — KptMarchewa · 1
Yeah, I think it is especially useful for the situations where ammo costs are spent such as when shooting with your ornate bow and miss the mark, or you are tight on actions for an evade or even a single point of damage to keep going with your turn, but come up short. — Bronze · 187
With Wendy and her amulet, could you attempt the same test 3 times? First time normally, then with her ability discarding Live and Learn, then by playing Live and Learn from the discard pile using her amulet? — bigstupidgrin · 84
bigstupidgrin- Yes. You can also use Lucky that way. It definitely kind of feels like you're cheating when you do it. — Zinjanthropus · 231
With lots more hindsight, I agree with Django's original comment. This is just a much weaker card than Lucky, and subsequent cycles have given solo survivors better options. Since you have lost whatever skill cards are committed to the test (unlike in Lucky), it has limited use on tough tests, and since you still suffer the consequences of the loss (again, unlike Lucky), it's useless against most treacheries. I'm strongly considering replacing this in my solo Ashcan Pete deck with the new Keep Faith. The downside: Keep Faith needs to come out fairly early to justify its cost and the randomness of if/when those bless tokens get pulled, and that's doubly hard in a deck where my mulligan priorities are Magnifying Glass, Peter Sylvestre, Leather Coat/Bulletproof Vest, and Fire Axe. But compared to Live and Learn, 'd maybe rather take a chance on having a bunch of +2s that might come up randomly compared to a single guaranteed +2 that's useless on harder and more consequential tests. This also aligns with the fact that some scenarios get tougher as they proceed, either by design (like a boss fight) or by nature (when time is running out, there's less margin for failed tests)... so even if you don't get the Keep Faith very early in the scenario, you're increasingly likely to get it as you approach the point in the scenario where you're more likely to need it. — mpinzur · 1
counterpoint: you often have a greater than coin flip chance to succeed if you're (for example) one up on a test. Don't commit any cards, if you do fail, play L&L. also, it's a card that can let you redraw an auto fail, perhaps you pull back the commit using Silas' ability, Try and Try, or Grisly Totem (3). That's not even getting into the benefits that Survivors can often reap from failing a test. Commit Take Heart, trigger Rabbit's Foot, then do the test again at +2 and without having lost an action. There's also fail combos that can be done with the Survivor card pool — Zinjanthropus · 231
I think this is better than Lucky when your commitment comes from Assets. If you're taking tests you don't need to commit to, obviously that means Dark Horse, but it also means any deck at all which approaches test at an advantage through Assets. Mathematically, this card is better than Lucky! at improving your raw odds of success. The downside is that you lose anything committed to the test, the exception is an Event or the Uses of an Asset. If you are regularly performing actions without retaliation and via event or asset, with no other buffs, then this is strictly better than Lucky. This is, of course, not even bringing up fail-for-benefit synergy. — Kitsunin · 1
And I think, the majority of tests fit that case in which this card is good. There are some decks that will throw a Skill or Talent at the majority of tests, but those are rare. For most decks, this is at worst equally useful to Lucky!, often better. — Kitsunin · 1
Rex might prefer this over Lucky! with his weakness out since he can still succeed at the test after shuffling it into his deck. — AlderSign · 423
Sleight of Hand

Sefina Rousseau, This, and Ornate Bow = potential 15 damage for 5 resources and 2 extra actions. Back her up with Backstab, and Sefina can now deliver that 3 damage burst pretty consistently (and cheaper than ever). I can't think of another investigator this would be better on.

crymoricus · 252
Could you explain you calculation? — Django · 5171
I think the calculation is: Sleight of Hand underneath Sefina, Ornate Bow + 3 Paint the World = 3 attacks of 3 damage, then Ornate Bow + 2 Sleight of Hand = 2 attacks of 3 damage. Total is 5 attacks (at one resource each from Sleight of Hand cost) for 15 damage. — everyoneknowsitswendy · 1
Okay, so you mean spread out across 5 separate turns? That is a good value in terms of resources, but not in terms of tempo. Personally I think Sleight of Hand + Lupara or Chicago Typewriter is way better than the Ornate Bow. — Faranim · 417
Does latest taboo means 'at the end of turn~~ return~~" — ashxd2 · 1
Intrepid

The flavor is pretty cool, but I think the mechanics are quite weak here. Intrepid is in close contention with Expose Weakness for worst card in the Heart of the Elders pack. The benefit is pretty weak and you have very little control over it. At best, Intrepid is going to work out to around +4 scattered over a bunch of skill tests. Even in this optimal situation, that's still a fairly weak card. I would actually rather take Take the Initiative or even Unexpected Courage just to get a more substantial boost to a single test, which is going to be much more consistently useful and much easier to plan around.

Why do people think Streetwise is better than Keen Eye? Part of the reason is just that Rogues have more resources to spare than Guardians, but another part of the reason is that +3 to one test is superior to +1 scattered over 3 tests. It's just much easier to benefit from the former.

Of course, then there's the problem that you only get that full bonus in a small minority of situations. A lot of the time, you'll actually get way less than that. After all, more often that not, you're not spending every action of a turn taking skill tests. And even if you do plan to spend every action taking skill tests, you're not always going to get the Will test you need. And even if you get a Will test, passing Will treacheries is really hard, and Intrepid's +1 is certainly not going to make you likely to succeed on its own. On Expert you would have to add an enormous amount of additional boosting or face a very strong chance of a wasted card.

I think this card is significantly better if there's a Mystic in the party. Mystics proactively test Will all the time and usually build their decks so they have a pretty easy time passing those tests. So you can have the Mystic go first, chuck this onto one of their spells, and then take your turn knowing you'll have the Intrepid bonus. This is much better. Even then, though, I wouldn't take this card. The payoff simply isn't big enough.

Yes, you could combine this with Leo De Luca or Police Badge or whatever, or "Let me handle this!" to try to hunt for a Will test when you want one, but honestly the payoff of this card is just way too low to make these combos interesting for me. I just don't see much here.

Fortunately, the other Guardian card in the pack, Custom Ammunition, is a huge hit, so Guardian players needn't feel too much regret about this one.

CaiusDrewart · 3200
Ornate Bow

This card has generated a lot of hype. And why not? It unlocks an entirely new playing style by allowing investigators to fight with Agility, and the +2 damage is quite impressive. Plus, anyone can take it!

I'm going to argue, though, that Ornate Bow is not actually that good and probably not worth the 3 XP, 4 resources, and 2 hand slots.

First, the action efficiency on Ornate Bow is really poor for an XP card. If you play the Bow and use it once, it's clearly way inferior to just using something like Backstab or "I've got a plan!" or Waylay. If you use it twice, you're dealing 6 damage over 4 actions. That's the same as a level 0 weapon can do! And the more you use it, the worse the action efficiency gets. Use it four times for (optimally) 12 damage over 8 actions. A standard +damage level 0 weapon can deal 14 damage over 8 actions. The more you use the Bow, the less efficient it is compared to the game's level 0 weapons. That's not great for a 3 XP card.

The Bow does have the advantage that you need to pass fewer skill checks. In the above example, 12 damage from the Bow would take 4 successful skill checks, where it would take 6 from the weapons. That's a considerable advantage. But then there's the big disadvantage that a lot of enemies have more than 3 health, and reloading the bow during combat is a huge pain. You either have to swallow attacks of opportunity or you have to evade, and either is wasteful. Even if you're facing 3-health enemies, obviously the optimal situation for the Bow, if/when you miss with the Bow, you suddenly find yourself in an awful spot. If you miss with other weapons, it's not nearly as bad. (Finn can get around this, but I don't think the Bow is that great for him--see below.)

So the Bow is not looking so great for a 3 XP weapon. And indeed, I think anyone with half-decent Combat (and this would include Finn, Jenny, Silas, and Skids) should just use weapons that use Combat instead, because these are way better. Even if your to-hit bonus is a little lower, even the level 0 weapons are more efficient in terms of actions, and the XP weapons available to these investigators are way more efficient. (Not to mention Rogues have a nice set of cards that synergize well with a big gun, like Sleight of Hand and Contraband, but are really terrible with the Bow.)

But what about those high-Agility investigators who have really low Combat but high Agility, like Ursula, Wendy, and Sefina? Doesn't the Bow find a home here?

The answer is: sort of. Yes, these would be the most viable candidates to use the Bow. But I have real doubts here. For one, like I said, you're still not reaching very good efficiency. You're still doing worse, action-wise, than other investigators do using level 0 weapons. Since you have to invest a lot into the Bow in terms of XP, resources, and hand slots, I'm really skeptical when the final result ends up being not very efficient compared to how other investigators can fight.

Besides, these investigators all have really important things to be doing with their hands. Ursula is simply a far better investigator when she's got a Magnifying Glass or two in hand than when she doesn't. Ditto for Sefina with Lockpicks or Spirit Athame or Wendy with Lockpicks. By playing the Bow you are seriously compromising your ability to investigate. I think someone like Sefina or Wendy is better off not fighting very much, and using events like Backstab, Sneak Attack, or Waylay on the rare occasions that they really want to kill something, rather than investing a ton into the Bow for a pretty unspectacular payoff. (Plus, focusing more on events synergizes really well with these characters anyway.)

And yes, Ursula has a possible combo with Dr. Elli Horowitz to get around the Bow's hand slots. But not only is that unreliable (the Bow needs to be in the top 9 cards of your deck), you're just using up a different super-valuable slot instead. More to the point, Ursula can just take Acidic Ichor, which is not only far more efficient than the Bow and attacks at the same base value, it's also far cheaper and doesn't take up any slots at all. She should just do that.

I'm not trying to say the Bow is unplayable. If you really want to make it work, I'm sure it's possible. But I do think the efficiency is not very good and the Bow is not nearly as profitable as it seems at first glance, even for those investigators who seem like the best fits.

CaiusDrewart · 3200
The bow gets much better if the user or another player us venturer and e.cache3 to reload it. — Django · 5171
For Silas then (who has poor level 0 weapon choice at present), assuming he doesn't want to sink his resources into Fire Axe but is prepared to commit both hands and XP, you think that Baseball Bat is better than the bow? — duke_loves_biscuits · 1285
I tested the bow as Finn, and it's... Weird. It's very strong because it's an 'infinite ammo' weapon that can one-shot most of the random encounters. (And when it doesn't, you will want to use that extra evade). Another strong point is the fact that ability is easy to boost as Finn (Streetwise), so you will quite never miss. When it codes to a firearm, you are more limited. I used to run Switchblade to deal with small monsters, but, hey, combat is heck difficult to boost here ! And I don't want to waste Lupara ammo on random encounters. I could do a whole scenario (with a lot of fight actually) with just that weapon. Played the bow on turn 1, and never had to use any other damage output. That said, I was stuck not being able to play Lockpicks. That was a pain. But, as I didn't need much of my ressources for combat, I use most of them into intel boost via Streetwise. 4+3 as Finn is nice and often more than enough. That's one of the reasons why I don't see Sefina and her low intel play the bow. Last but not least, the fucking damn reload. The whole scenario was basically "one shot something, reload, move". This action consuption is huge, and you definitely want a Leo De Luca to be attune that. All in all, not worthy if you play solo, but I played with a seeker, and my job was to take down threats and help gathering clues. For a rogue-fighter, and I think especially Finn who can manage the Bow drawbacks (high base Intel, free dodge) this might be worth a shot. — Palefang · 72
Dario El-Amin

I'm a huge fan of Dario.

Any card that gives you a permanent stat boost is worth looking at. Dario gives you two. Incredible! Also, his ability is sort of a Cache-on-a-stick, improving any free action you might have. Undoubtedly very powerful. But he comes with some downsides.

First, as an Ally, his slot is incredibly competitive. He costs is relatively high, his soak isn't amazing, and his stat-boosting ability is tricky to turn on. But, all of these can be mitigated. If you build around him, he's great:

  • Money. He costs 4 to play, which is high, and then expects you to have enough money to turn on his ability. However, any card that gives you cash to turn on his ability also gives you cash to play him. He himself gives you cash with his ability. So once you throw in a Lone Wolf or a Hot Streak(4) (or a Hot Streak(2)), he is pretty viable.
  • Slots. He competes directly with Leo, of course, but I'm not convinced Leo is always the strongest option. Leo gives you actions but sucks your tempo to the tune of 6 resources. What if you'd like to bounce back pretty quickly? Dario can take 2 actions to play at a net cost of 2 resources, then can give you another 2 next turn to get set up. Regardless, if you'd like to mitigate the slot cost of Dario, Charisma is the obvious answer.

I've played him in a pay-to-win solo Jenny before to great effect. She could afford to win through Streetwise and still keep her Dario bonus up. I've also enjoyed him in solo Jim (with Lone Wolf for money), stacking with St. Hubert's Key to have a very imposing 6 5 3 2 statline. He is much easier to play around than David Renfield as far as econ options go, and he gives you as well.

So give him a try, particularly in solo decks (where 2 stats is massive)!

PureFlight · 784
I admire the passion of this case for Dario, though I'm not sure I'm convinced. I wonder if Milan might not be stronger for these Jim builds? No Will boost, but Milan is much faster, much more efficient at making money, and doesn't require you to have 10 resources just sitting there, unused and unhelpful. — CaiusDrewart · 3200
Only one Milan can be in play in the entire game, so in higher player counts, alternatives matter. — Chitinid · 14